blitzer. >> next one, cnn the hush money cover up, trial picks up again first thing tomorrow morning, cnn, will of course, have special coverage. former tabloid magnate david pecker is expected to be back on the stand. trump's defense team will continue their cross-examination. we're also still waiting on the judge's decision for a potential punishment for trump for allegedly violating the gag order that has been issued, telling him to not bad mouth or even discuss jurors, witnesses, and others tune in tonight to get up to speed on what played out in the case today, it's a special ac30 60 in which aac anderson cooper will go through the major moments in the hush money cover-up. the trial. that's tonight at eight only here on cnn until tomorrow, you can follow me on facebook, instagram, threads x, formerly known as twitter, on the tiktok, i take tapper you can follow the show on twitter at the leads semen. if you ever miss an episode of lead, you can listen to the show. all two

hours of it. once you happening now, breaking news tonight trial the us supreme court in new york sensational testimony against donald trump just wrapped up for the day, focusing for the first time on the hush money deal with adult film star stormy daniels, that's central to the case. >> and here in washington, trump's historic bid for criminal immunity has played it out before the nation's highest court. and the justice is offered some clues about how they may rule for the next hour, we'll take you inside both of trump's high court cases are reporters and experts or standing by to break down all of today's most important developments and look

ahead to what's next. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i will blitzer with a special report in the situation room the trump trial today we begin with all the breaking news on the trump hush money criminal trial the defense cross-examination of key witness david pecker, is expected to resume tomorrow after the former national enquirer publisher address some very salacious topics in his testimony today. cnn as brujin graphs is outside the courthouse in new york for us, grin the testimony is getting closer and closer to the heart of the case against trump yeah. >> well, that's right. defendants her knees really started their cross a peg are going after those catch and kill stories, getting him to admit that buying and burying stories about a lot of celebrities was actually just common practice that they did

it quite off do as part of their business model. and that in fact, they had been doing it for donald trump trump even 17 years before the 2016 election. this is after the prosecution spent more than six hours over the last couple of days questioning pecker about the inner workings of those catch and kill stories. and how many of them benefitted trump cross-examination of david pecker, got underway in the criminal case against donald trump 17 years of providing president trump with a heads-up about potentially negative publicity? yes. the former publisher of the national enquirer testified trump's lawyers trying to show that catch and kill schemes buying negative stories to make them disappear was not uncommon. we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrass or hurt the campaign one such scheme at the crux of the da's case against trump, stormy daniels months before the 2016 election, the adult film star and director tried to sell her story of a sexual relationship trump to the

enquirer for $120,000, but pecker testified he wouldn't buy it. pecker said he later learned trump's then attorney and fixer, michael cohen paid daniel's out of his own funds at one point, pecker testified trump called him saying daniel's violated the agreement and owed him 24 million for doing this interview and you had sex with him? >> yes. >> you were 27? he was 60. were you physically attracted to him? >> no pecker didn't pay daniel's because he wasn't reimbursed for an earlier catch and kill for trump as the night ended, we were incident karen mcdougal tried to sell her story of a year long affair with trump, which he denied i think you should by the story and take it off the market. pecker testified he told trump, pecker hatched a plan with cohen as previous recording show funding yes trump would pay him back in exchange for signing the story over. pecker said cohen assured him, don't

worry, i'm your friend boss will take care of it. mcdougal story was purchased but never published in the end, trump didn't reimburse the enquirer, don't trump ever say to you that he loved you? >> all the time. he always told me he loved me pecker testified after this interview in 2018, trump called upset. >> i thought you had and we had an agreement with karen mcdougal that she can't give any interviews. pecker recalled the ben president saying, but pecker testified the company's agreement with mcdougal was altered and allowed her to speak if a negative story was coming out with respect to donald trump, he was concerned about what the family may hear or say about it, not saying whether it was true or not. pecker testified after trump's campaign was announced, pecker said trump's concern shifted it was basically what the impact would be to the campaign and the election pecker said well, if we started the day wondering if the judge was going to make a decision about that recent gag order hearing,

he did it, but prosecutors brought forward four more examples. >> they say trump violated that gag order over the last time several days. so now a new hearing is set for next wednesday. trump has campaign events, but he has ordered to be here in court as of now tomorrow cross-examination picks back up with david pecker on the stand. well, are beringia and grass outside the courthouse in new york. >> thanks very much. i want to bring in our legal and political experts said for some analysis, right? now, it was interesting. elliot did the prosecution accomplish what they needed to accomplish to get the case going to try to prove that trump's actions were criminally election interference. it's important to know what the prosecution's goal is with any one witness. this was not known is going to be convicted on the basis of the testimony they've seen thus far. >> but what they had to do as number one, established the existence of some kind of skim between david pecker, michael cohen, and donald trump to facilitate these payments and cover them up. >> and for the purposes of just

wasn't useful testimony with no obvious at least from where we sit, no obvious wounds. the prosecution absolutely did what they needed did you do? it's important to note, though cross-examination is starting now, we have not seen this witness get beat up yet, and he will because that's the whole that's all point of the game. >> that's the nature of the business right now. i'm john king. what do you and our viewers to listen to what trump said as he emerged from the trial today and spoke to reporters. listen to this it's breathtaking and amazing testimony. this is a drought that you don't never happened. this is the case. they should have never been filed it was really incredible an de, open your eyes and we can't let this continue to happen to our country but another matter, you know the economy is just been reported to be doing very badly the stock market's way so from the trial to the academy sort of in the same breath, his political advisors have been urging him to not attack

judges, not attack jurors, not try to talk about the process so much when he has his public comments to try to be a candidate since you're not on the campaign trail, talk about the economy, make a case against president biden. >> so the last part might not fail. my field of fact check machine how about the stock market being down in one day today it was down because of a gdp report, but overall it's up. but that is what the political advice want to do. but i'm struck with the, it was breathtaking, it was amazing. a friend of his, a man he has acknowledged as a friend and a witness who said he thinks he's still donald trump's rounds, even though they sold on talk, talked about capturing and killing stories about alleged donald trump affairs that david pecker said he believed were true to help the presidential campaign. i'm not a lawyer, i don't know what that's legal or not, but it's not exactly hague kids gather around. let me tell you a story about my life that you want out there in the public domain. so i don't know how that's amazing of a breathtaking, i think a big point in this is how do 12 ordinary people who are watching? how do they regard this? now, it is their job to put aside their emotions and feelings about porn stars and payments and so on. but when

they hear about this type of payment in this type of behavior what what are these folks talking about in that room? >> and that was very clearly what trump's team was trying to do when they started with a chance to cross-examine mr. pecker, was they were trying to bring up other examples of people doing similar things to this. people who not necessarily running for president of the united states, but they did cite at least one person, arnold schwarzenegger and talking about his run for governor of california. and so they're essentially trying to muddy the waters and say that this is just something that you see people do, whether or not that works with the the jury is going to be a big question, but i do think they'll continue drilling down and trying to question david pecker is memory tomorrow. i was told by one source that they do believe it's gonna be about maybe three to four hours of cross-examination. and david pecker. so we'll see if we could see a second witness begin to take the stand even tomorrow afternoon, even better. >> one of the questions one of the first questions they asked for comments was so ami isn't a charity organization, is you're making a profit off of all of this really making him seem

like this is about greed and that's all to get the jury thinking that they don't like this person. >> yeah. important point. it was interesting. i thought that kaitlyn that david pecker testified about a call with two top white house staffers at the time who picks and sarah huckabee sanders would that reveal as someone who covered the white house and remembers sarah sanders being at the white house briefing room where obviously all three of us have sat at one point, she had to deny allegations about karen mcdougal citing conversations that she had with donald trump to hear that review still today that there was a call with the national enquirer tabloid king, hope hicks and sarah sanders while they were taxpayer funded white house officials and talking where david pecker was asieh that if he should extend karen mcdougal's contract was absolutely stunning and it really showed you that all of this that has been happening. it's not something that just happened in 2015 and 20 2016. this happen well into when donald trump is in the white house, david pecker, the national enquirer, was on the phone with white house officials asking them for their advice on how they should handle burying troublesome

stories about the president of the united states that just struck me so much. i asked sarah sanders is team if she's going to comment on this, they haven't that whether or not she's going to weigh in, but it's quite remarkable that trump put and david pecker on the phone with two taxpayer funded white house officials. >> but this is what he does when michael cohen fell out of favor, he needed new people to be as enforcers and michael cohen at that point, i think it was on the cusp of falling out of favor. if you go back, i don't have the timeline in front of me, but this has been a constant. donald trump fines loyal lieutenants who will do his business, which is why i think pecker is important. yesterday, i believe it was when he said donald trump was deeply involved, was frugal, didn't like to throw away money, so it was always involved in the financial decisions. so the trustee is not conveyed to say, well, trump said make it go away. he didn't say do anything illegal or he didn't say write checks. that's what they're trying to build that trump knew what was happening. >> it seems to make caitlin the defense team of trump it's now going to try to muddy the waters a bit following the prosecution's opening witnesses, david pecker what are you hearing about how trump and his legal team are going to start dealing with all of this

tomorrow. >> i think the question is really how do they distance donald trump from david pecker? because what the prosecution has been doing over the last several days is really putting the two of them together talking about how often they spoke on the phone, how that ramped up the closer donald trump got to the white house and donald trump inviting david pecker two. we learned yesterday, two days ago that he invited him to win his his presidential announcement. they invite him to the presidential inauguration. he came to the white house. he was in the oval office. he had dinner at the white house and brought business associates it's because his wife didn't want to come they'll go after him on the timeline and his memory and what he said now, the question of how successfully they can distance himself from donald trump is a big one. is there was built as a thank you dinner that the white house very interesting indeed. >> everybody standby. there's a lot more and we need to discuss excluding the other consequential court case for donald trump we have a breakdown of today's us supreme court arguments over presidential immunity. how the justices appear ready to rule against the former president, while also potentially

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mesobook.com her firm. only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with ms ophelie oma kalisa. now a very busy day of breaking news for the criminal defendant donald trump. while the former president attended his hush money trial in new york his lawyer was arguing before the us supreme court, pressing trump's historic claim of sweeping immunity from prosecution in the january 6 federal case here's cnn's chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid the high court hearing, perhaps eats most consequential case of the year, whether former president trump gets immunity from criminal prosecution for acts committed while in office. de john sour, arguing for trump, claiming without immunity there can be no presidency, as we know, if a president can be charged, put on trial, and imprisoned for his most controversial

decisions. as soon as he leaves office that looming threat, we'll distort the president's decision-making precisely when bold and fearless action is most needed. >> michael dreeben, arguing for special counsel, jack smith, countered, claiming that absolute immunity would allow a president to commit any and all crimes that will his novel theory would immunize former presidents for criminal liability, for bribery, treason, sedition murder, and here conspiring to use fraud to overturn the results of an election. and perpetuate himself, empower the justices pressing both litigants about when a president can't be prosecuted posing several scenarios isn't an official act. >> if it's an official act, it's appeasement in official on the way you've described that hypothetical, it could well be justice ketanji brown, jackson raising concerns about presidential power without limits, you seem to be worried about the president being

chilled. i think that we would have i have a really significant opposite problem if the president wasn't chilled, i'm trying to understand what the disincentive is from turning the oval office into the seat of criminal activity in this country and asking, why then did former president nixon need a pardon after he left office? >> what was up with the pardon for president nixon i think if everybody thought that presidents couldn't be prosecuted than what was that about? >> justice? amy coney barrett, who could be a swing vote that decides the case, getting trump's attorney to concede that some of trump's alleged actions were not part of his duties as president and would not be protected under an immunity claim. >> i want to know if you agree or disagree about the characterization of these acts is private petitioner turned to a private attorney, was willing to spread knowingly, false claims of election fraud to spearhead is challenges to the election results private, dining we dispute the

allegation, but sounds private. >> other justices it seemed wary of opening the door to prosecuting feature president's after leaving office, i'm not concerned about this case, but i am concerned about future uses of the criminal law to target political opponents based on accusations about their motives will that not lead us into a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country is a democracy. and we can look around the world and find countries where we have seen this process, where the loser gets thrown in jail. >> the justices appear poised to send this case back down to the lower courts for additional litigation. this point is unclear how long it will take the supreme court to make public its decision and how long additional litigation could take. >> so as of now, it's not clear if the former president would go to trial before november wolff, paula reid reported for us, paula, thank you.

>> our legal and political experts are back with us and caitlin, as you know, trump's spoke about the supreme court oral arguments today outside the manhattan courthouse, just a little while ago and said this heard the meeting was quite amazing amazing. >> and the justices were on their game. so let's see how that all turns out. but again, i say presidential immunity a very powerful presidential immunity is imperative how much do these two very monumental cases in new york? >> and here the supreme court in washington weigh on trump right now. >> it's interesting because they weigh on him in different ways. the new york case is so deeply personal home and he's watching friends confidence and potentially people that it's allegedly slept with, going to get on the witness stand in front of him in manhattan in washington. this case that he said he wanted to be there today watching it. it's of more grave importance to him because it determines whether or not a trial that would include his former top aides and cabinet

officials potentially taking the witness stand from going to trial. that's the big question of the supreme court for decision to de, the trump team. and people have been speaking would say they feel pretty good about the how the arguments went today. they're actually shocked. they never expected to win on the merits of full immunity. but the justices seemed so convinced that limiting the scope of what jack smith could actually try here, that they walked away feeling pretty good about it, even though there were some really remarkable moment comments in there, is paul just pointed out where his attorneys were making big concessions that we've never heard them make. >> a good point. it's interesting, elliot, that the court seemed prepare prepared to hand trump a delay and to move this case back to a lower court right now, that would be a win for trump, presumably because he wants to delay as much as possible. it would be a practical when not illegal win, right? it's there are not, there's not a majority of the supreme court that is going to rule that the foreign president is absolutely immune from criminal lawsuit. the criminal prosecution that's clear. now, they may send it and it seemed likely that there's a majority

of the court wants to send it back down to lower courts for more litigation. the hearings that's a win for donald trump. it delays the trial. now, the supreme court can say that what we did the institutionally proper thing, and ensured that this question of what constitutes an official act gets the proper hearing it deserves. but to be clear, wolf, they could have resolved this back in december. that is when they first got this case. that's when it was first brief. if to the supreme court and they could have issued a ruling right then and set this to trial. and so some of this is the supreme court doing punches pilot, washing their hands and saying they want nothing to do with it. >> how do you see the implications of all of this for the country job? >> well, the delay parts 193 days until election day of people start voting, even a couple of months before that with early voting and all that. so if this is not resigning solved, it's another giant question mark, about 20% of republicans in poll say that they would view trump is unfit to be president if he is convicted. will they view the manhattan case that way? maybe not because it's a democratic prosecutor. trump has been very successful with a lot of help from his allies of saying no, that one's more political so

it helps trump if he can keep these bigger cases. this is about stealing country. this is not overturning a democratic election. if he can keep that from happening before the election, it's certainly helps him i'm fascinated by where the court ends up because it was interesting to hear justice alito and justice gorsuch saying, let's not really talk about trump. let's talk about the future. well, the allegations against trump are pretty consequential that essentially tried to stay are cool. just tried to stay in power i tried to block the congress from certifying joe biden sweat beyond that, i was struck by justice coney barrett's. you're always looking for the maverick. this is a 6-3 conservative majority, so he looking for somebody who's going to tip the balance and her questions to eliot's point sounded like she wants to send it back down, which will help donald trump with the delay. but it also sounds like she was very clear that to me a lot of this actually should be settled in a trial that's why we have trials. maybe some of us an official akre gcm pretty clear that she thought a lot of them were damning allegations, still allegations about let's see, let's let a trial judge do this. we're not going to throw this away. >> i'm sorry. >> i was just going to say the question you were dealing with these theoretical questions and it all came from judge pan in

this circuit court of when they were hearing and there's arguments and they said, okay, well, if he if the president tells seal team six to assassinate his political opponent, is that considered an official act? and trump's attorneys response was, yeah. and today, that version of the question was, well, it can the president instruct the military to carry out a coup? and is that considered an official act? and trump's attorneys said it depends on the circumstance i think that in the supreme court was kinda we have a lot of moments where it's like did that really just happened? >> that was one of its almost laughable. kaitlan, it really is that they could look. the supreme court justice in the eye and say, no, that is unimaginable in the united states, this is all an introduction to, for america. did the idea the supreme court very rarely just rolls up and down on things. it's almost not what you say, it's how you say it. and they write these long opinions explaining the nuances of these issues. it's not somebody wins and somebody loses. and i think we're going to see an opinion here where there's winners and it seemed like they barely addressed the question that they set out to address, which was, does the president enjoyed immunity? and

if so, to what extent? they basically to your point, the conservatives largely it seemed like ignored that question. >> they almost made clear they didn't want to answer it. yeah. that they wanted to send it back down. they didn't want to question what's the question sent to them by the appellate court, but it's could they want to send it back to the trial court and hope it doesn't come back, but it's probably literally the most supreme court thing i know. >> i mean, that to avoid boyd making factual, definitive findings and send it back down to lower courts to sort things out, though, they could delay delay, delay. that's what trump was. all right. everybody. thank you very, very much. a note to our viewers katelyn will be back later tonight, 8:00 p.m. eastern anchoring more of our special coverage alongside cnn's anderson cooper i'm coming up a brand new cnn poll debuting this hour with numbers on donald trump's criminal hush money trial, including how seriously voters see the charges against them. and if a conviction would change anything among his supporters beyonce's new album

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than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. free text. hello? be to three-to-one, three-to-one today. >> i mourn liebermann at the pentagon and this cnn the regular news continues with cnn's exclusive new poll asking americans about donald trump's criminal trial. it's being released for the first time right now here in the situation room see you in political director, david chaldean is here to reveal the results. take us through the numbers david, short wolf. >> we have this brand new poll conducted by ssrs. and i want you to look here. we are seeing a really interesting development. americans compared to last august are more likely to say across all four of donald trump's criminal trials here that if the charges are true, it's irrelevant. his fitness for office and take a look where that is most acute. it's in the hush money payment

trial. >> so back in august, it was 39% of americans in our poll that said indeed, if these charges are true, for which he's on trial for new york at it would be irrelevant to donald trump's fitness for office. >> that's grown now, 45% say it's irrelevant. and what you see is across efforts to overturn the 2020 election across the classified documents case across the january 6 attack on the capitol. you see growth for the position that these charges, if true, are irrelevant to his fitness for office. that's welcome, news for the trump campaign. there's little doubt about that. now, this issue of the gag order in this hush money trial, 42% of americans and our poll, the plurality say trump's behavior during this trial, wolf is inappropriate there has been mostly inappropriate only a quarter say it's been appropriate about a third say they have no opinion. obviously, you'd imagine there's a big partisan split behind these numbers. wolf a quick question, david, what does the poll show when

cns, cnn as trump's supporters, if they would continue their support for trump, even if he were convicted? yes. so this is a question we asked not just about this hush money trial, but convicted of any crime and as you noted, this is among people who in this poll tell us they're supporting donald trump in the 2024 election. so among the trump supporters in this poll, three quarters of them, 76% say they're going to support him no matter what, even if he's a convicted criminal. but a quarter, 24% of trump supporters say they might reconsider their support if indeed he's convicted of a crime. now, i just want to note this 24%, about eight in ten of them say they would never considering voting for joe biden. so just reconsidering support for trump doesn't necessarily mean that's a vote for joe biden, but we wanted to dig in and find out what is behind this 24%, what does this group of perhaps softer trump

supporters? what does it look like? >> and so we broke it down here demographically and i just want to show you here. >> this side here is among those the 24% that would reconsider among trump supporters if indeed he was convicted of a crime nearly two-thirds of them are younger, they're under the age of 50, half of them are people of color 63%, nearly two-thirds believed biden legitimately won the election, not election deniers have for political independence or moderates. this is not what you call the trump base, and that's why they are in the reconsider category. there are soft trump's supporters compare that to the three-quarters of trump's supporters in this poll, who say they're staying with them no matter what that looks like, the trump coalition, you know, which is that they're older, they're wider, only 22% of them think biden legitimately won the 2020 election. so this coalition is really interesting to look at what that is. that quarter of trump's support for that might reconsider if he is convicted, wolfe david chell,

you thank you very much for that exclusive new poll result i want to bring him our cnn political analyst, maggie haberman, who was inside the trump trial in new york. >> earlier today, maggie, thanks so much for joining us. i know you've been watching this trial up close inside the courtroom. and almost daily basis. what did you observe about trump's demeanor today? and where is his head at right now sure. >> so wolf, he shook his head several times as david pecker was testifying, it's actually among the most animated we have seen him. it's the kind of reactions that he had during, say, the e jean carroll trial though he was much more pronounced there in january earlier this year, but this was uncomfortable testimony from david pecker walking the jury through narrative about engaging with trump's former personal lawyer, michael cohen about killing, stories about trump's involvement with two women. and in particular pecker told stories about engaging with trump while trump was president and having a

conversation that related to one of these women. >> yeah, that's interesting. we're just getting the exhibits shown in court today. maggie, including a photo of trump and pecker at the white house. this is where pecker testified trump asked him how karen mcdougal is doing, how significant is that? >> well, i think it could be very significant wealth. i mean, i think that you're seeing right now earlier today, we saw trump's lawyers trying to say jazz, the david pecker is memory was faulty asking questions about contradictory answers he had given in different interviews with prosecutors. and i think that you will see he that is a theme, but to your point about the picture, there's documentation that backs up. what the story of the pecker is telling. there were a lot of references to text messages to email so the fact that pecker and those are supposed to speak to pecker's credibility. the fact that pecker is saying that he had this conversation with trump where trump was knowledgeable enough about karen mcdougal to ask, how is she doing? i think could end up being significant. they also

elicited the prosecutors will from david pecker, an answer about essentially his motivations where it was of animus for trump and david pecker is answer was he was my mentor. i'm paraphrasing, but it was used the word mentor and he was doing an in sorrow as opposed to an anger it's notable because the defense lawyers and their opening statements suggested michael cohen is who is a key witness in this case is acting at a personal grievance and they're trying and to show that actually the fact that is gonna be the same across the board. now, we will see what trump's defense lawyers do in terms of trying to question credibility, but today was uncomfortable testimony it's interesting on the immunity hearing at the us supreme court today. maggie, how is the trump team thinking about what good practically be a major victory for him, delaying the federal election, subversion trial they've been very happy wolf the trump team since it was it was learned that this oral argument was

going to be on the calendar. >> it meant that there was going to be a delay that the probability of a january 6 federal trial are related trial happening before election day was much slimmer or you heard questions that suggested from the supreme court justices earlier today that they are open to some argument that there is some level of immunity granted a president. and so trump's team is feeling very good about about that case. we'll see what ends up happening. but at the moment, this trial in manhattan is the only one that is taking place this year that we know of and writing now it doesn't look like that's going to change. >> we'll see what happens. maggie haberman. thank you. very, very much. just ahead conservative lawyer and trump critic george conway shares his takes on trump's two big court battles. today's standby live from the nation's capital, one of the most unforgettable nights in dc, the sworn-in will read back here again, president biden and comedian collin

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to for patriots.com. >> now i'm sunlen serfaty in washington in this is cnn in the trump immunity case at the

us supreme court today justice samuel alito raise the hypothetical question of whether a president would be protected by immunity if he's if he uses the us military seal team six to assassinate an individual the court digging into the trump team's argument that a president can't be criminally prosecuted for official acts and joining me now, the conservative lawyer, george conway, a very vocal trump critic, who is now a major donor to president biden's reelection campaign. george, thanks very much for joining us, thanks for having, let's talk about these historic oral arguments before the supreme court today. if the supreme court were to decide that presidents have immunity for official official acts, but not for private acts. what would that mean for trump? >> i don't think it necessarily means that he wins. i don't think he's going to win as broadly the broad immunity that he's been arguing, which is essentially that he could do anything. the

clt six argued the seal team six hypothetical. we've been talking about the ku hypothetical that was talking about i don't think he's going to win that kind of broad official well, immunity, i think what i think the reason why the supreme court took this case and it is understandable. i would've preferred they not take the case. i would refer to case. good. go immediately to trial. >> but there is the question of where do you draw the line? >> there could be abusive prosecutions in the future. i think justice gorsuch said, i'm not worried about this case worried about the future case, and i think a lot of people were very upset about how much of the discussion today was not about the actual case before the court, but from hypothetical cases that could happen in the future. but not ever happened. but before they get angry at the court for asking those questions, they have to think about the fact that well, suppose on january 20, 2025, a man takes over in the white house who wants to seek retribution on his political enemies and who appoints an attorney general who would bring prosecutions

against people who opposed this president in the past. these are legitimate questions and they are actually real questions to be asked. and it's sort of like i think of it as a variant on the old the old expression that you hear in the law of of, of hard cases make bad law bad people make hard law. and that's the thing that the supreme court is struggling with is they they i don't think there's a single vote on this court that's going to allow him not to be prosecuted. but what he did and trying to stay in office. but they do appreciate and that's what the discussion was all about. like. all right. but aren't there some circumstances where the prosecutorial power could be abused for political purposes against the former president. and that's a legitimate concern. it's just not one that's actually occurring in this case. what's the worst-case scenario if this case we're delayed until after the november election. well, again, i don't think i don't i think there's actually some

there's some silver linings in here for people who want to see a more immediate imposition of justice. >> i mean, here, here's, here's the way i see it. the supreme court, the at the worst, at the best, i think that the case is not going to go to trial until january i mean, till a lot september 17, because i think the court is going to end up having to take the rest of the term through the end of june and then if you add 81 days, which is what people are saying, how long and it would be before a trial, the judge chutkan has already indicated she would give you could end up with a trial in the middle of a campaign from september in september and october, you just wouldn't get a verdict by election day. now, people are talking about this possibility of a remand for proceedings for further proceedings before a trial. while the problem for that for trump with that for trump is that well, if i'm judge chutkan and i gotta i got to conduct some fact-finding or a hearing. i'm going to say fine. let's do this in july and you could end up being you could

end up having a hearing that ends up being a mini-trial, airing all the evidence or a lot of the evidence that would mean he would see it a trial. and i think that would that would that would serve the public good actually, even if we don't get to a verdict before the election and trump's so-called hush-money trial in new york. david pecker, the former publisher of the national enquirer testified today that he told michael cohen, the president's former are the ex-president's former lawyer and fixer back in 2018. and i'm quoting now i'm quoting pecker. we committed a campaign violation how revealing is that? >> oh, it's it's completely revealing& it's, it's a fact. i mean, this is this is why pecker is such a powerful witness because basically what happened with stormy daniels was set in motion by the original scheme that was set up using the national enquirer, where the national enquirer would essentially be used used to pay off people, to buy off people. so that negative stories wouldn't be pumped, published about donald trump

and then am i had to step out of it because trump wasn't paying them or because the lawyers an ami to say decided no and but they did for the same purpose as as the original payments or there through ami. it was the same purpose that cohen finance financed himself and then got reimbursed for the payments and stony stony daniel's, it was to affect the election. it's damaging testimony because the fact that there is a campaign violation of our finding that there is a campaign in financed by dilation is what kicks up the business records charge from a misdemeanor to a felony and that's what could get donald trump jail time, potentially. thanks so much for coming up. george conway, appreciate your expertise. thank you thank you and coming up more in today's supreme court hearing with a closer look at why justice clarence thomas nor calls to recuse himself despite his wife's row in efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election how it really happened

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believe taylor swift? i'm sorry. >> i don't know what to believe the whole story with anderson cooper sunday at eight on cnn all nine us supreme court justices heard arguments in the trump immunity battle today. >> and that includes justice clarence thomas despite calls for him to recuse himself from the case. cnn's bryan todd is taking it a closer look with no explanation, justice clarence thomas again, defies ethics concerns at the supreme court does the president have immunity? the conservative did not recuse himself from the case before the court involving former president trump's claim of presidential immunity in the january 6 election subversion case. critics and watchdog groups had called on justice thomas to step aside from this case because of past efforts by his wife, ginni thomas to reverse the 2020 election results in trump's favor and because she attended trump's stop, the steal rally on january 6, 2021, just before the attack on the capitol that

day justices required to disqualify themselves to recuse if their impartiality might reasonably be questioned. and the fact that we're even having this conversation over recusal means that reasonable people are questioning justice thomas's partiality in the weeks before she went to the stop, the steal rally, ginni thomas, an ardent conservative activist, texts to trump's white house chief of staff, mark meadows, quote, help this great president stand firm. >> marc release the kraken and save us from the left, taking america down mark paoletta, an attorney who represented ginni thomas, wrote in a recent op-ed that her activities at the time were minimal and mainstream. still, ethics watchdog, say clarence thomas should at least explain why he still taking part in a case involving trump's actions surrounding the insurrection, while his wife was associated with the insurrection why won't he explained, there are no rules that would require him to comment on it. the signal is that he just simply does not find it necessary and doesn't feel he should even explain himself as other colleagues have done in the past clarence

thomas also came under scrutiny after propublica reported he accepted luxury travel and gifts from several republican megadonors. >> will there ever be consequences for thomas? i think that by enlarge, it is going to be an exercise in frustration in this thomas will leave the court in ten years or so and they'll leave unscathed. the supreme court has not responded to cnn's request for comment on justice thomas's refusal to recuse himself from the trump immunity case in an interview two years ago, ginni thomas said that while she did attend, that stop the steal rally on january 6, she played no role in planning the events of that day and does not involve her husband in the political work that she does. wolf, bryan todd reporting for his brian. thank you very much coming up. new arrests as protest against the israel-hamas war spread to more college campuses. every piece

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come true get your car, your way, get it with gurus erin burnett outfront. next on tonight as pro-palestinian protests escalate on college campuses across the us, emory university in atlanta is the latest school to crack down on the demonstrations law enforcement officers deploying pepper spray and zip tie handcuffs as they forcibly make arrests. student anger over the war in gaza on display again today from coast-to-coast, a new and cap and a protestors just went up at northeastern university in boston and george washington university here in dc is now asking local police for assistance with protesters camped out on the campus i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. i'll see you tomorrow. 1:00 p.m. eastern for more